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The Australian Federal Government has just released a white paper detailing a proposed carbon emissions reduction target of between 5% and 15% by 2020 relative to 2000 levels. The 5% target is described as unconditional whereas the 15% target is described as subject to global agreement where all major economies commit to substantially restrain emissions and all developed countries take on comparable reductions to that of Australia.

The white paper goes on to argue Australia’s unique position in the global war on climate, citing a per capita impact of between 34–41% below 1990 levels, in effect demonstrating that Australia’s proposed commitment is ahead of the Europeans (per capita reduction is projected at 24-34%) and ahead of our cousins (projected 25% per capita sacrifice).

The report argues that Australia’s particular national circumstances (a strong population growth projection, heavy reliance on fossil fuels, etc.) make for greater structural adjustment when compared with many other developed nations.

However, what I don’t see in the report is a sufficient connection to the bigger issue:

Kirribilli Removals – 15 December 2008:

If permafrost melts across the vast areas of Russia and Canada, then we can kiss our arses goodbye

385 Responses to “Kissing our arses goodbye?”

  1. 301
    Chris B says:

    Bristol Palin’s future in-law arrested
    Sherry L. Johnston, the mother of Bristol Palin’s fiancé, was arrested Thursday night on drug charges.

    Johnston was arrested at her Wasilla home and charged with six felony drug counts. Alaska state troopers then searched the Johnston home for further evidence of narcotics. She was charged with second-degree misconduct for allegedly manufacturing narcotics and a fourth-degree misconduct related to possession.

    She has been released from the Mat-Su Pretrial Facility on a $2,000 bond.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16747.html

  2. 302
    Catrina says:

    It seems that Bush has finally done something effective to ease tensions in the Middle-East…

    In the West Bank village of Bilin, Palestinians hurled shoes rather than the usual rocks at Israeli soldiers in the weekly Friday protest against the Israeli separation barrier, which slices through their fields.

  3. 303
    Chris B says:

    Obama: I’m the fastest ever.

    Obama made the challenge to the auto industry as he unveiled his final Cabinet picks — noting that he assembled an economic team “at an earlier point than any President in history” to confront the recession and warning of tough times ahead.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16757.html

  4. 304
    Gaffhook says:

    295 296

    Would have upstaged em all if he got the Rude Pundit to prevail. LOL.

    “First of all i would like to thank “Tubby” the preacher for……………..

  5. 305
    Chris B says:

    302 Catrina :lol:

  6. 306
    Enemy Combatant says:

    Dept. of “no one could have possibly seen it coming”.

    “Vice President-Elect Joe Biden said the U.S. economy is in danger of “absolutely tanking” and will need a second stimulus package in the $600-billion to $700-billion range.”

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2008/12/biden-us-econom.html
    —————————–
    Fri Dec 19:
    http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/bensargent;_ylt=Aq86yU4_CqhNvodaQ7RLManV.i8C

  7. 307
    Kirribilli Removals says:

    Long article in the NY Times about the history of Madoff’s business and just how global it had become. Wow, talk about incredible, but he had agents all over Europe, Asia, the Middle East, luring in investors at all levels. And of course, for years he could get away with it, until of course he couldn’t.

    It’s a great read:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/20/business/20madoff.html?hp

  8. 308
    Gaffhook says:

    Like you said earlier Kirri, you just could not make it up and tell it like that.
    What is that line? A fool and his……………

  9. 309
    Gaffhook says:

    302
    Catrina
    It is good that they have had time to get boots to hurl at him.

    We are amazed, too, at the almost comic errors made by Arabs and their Soviet suppliers. There are Russian boots dotting the scene, left behind, too heavy for the Arabs to wear. They ran off barefooted.

    http://www.adl.org/main_Israel/six_day_war_40th_anniversary.htm?Multi_page_sections=sHeading_8

  10. 310
    Kirribilli Removals says:

    The Madoff madness just keeps giving and giving:

    In the meantime, the issue for investigators is how and whether such a crime could have been committed by just one man. “Speaking as a Jew on Christmas, I would be less shocked if Santa Claus showed up to my house than if Bernie Madoff pulled off this fraud alone,”
    Ron Geffner, a partner at law firm Sadis & Goldberg told Fortune magazine. “It’s hard to imagine that given the amount of assets that he managed that people would not have been aware. If nothing else, employees, no matter what floor they were on, would have known that somewhere within the firm money was being lost.”

    …you get the feeling that this story will go on for years and years.

  11. 311
    Enemy Combatant says:

    http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/64461

    Sat Dec 20:
    http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/edstein;_ylt=ApfPApypP12HqmTEM1cn_U5X_b4F

    Sat Dec 20:
    http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/tomtoles;_ylt=AsweDveMbPcRX5h11GJ_yvJX_b4F

    Sat Dec 20:
    http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/billday;_ylt=AkxnBWrDh2qE0yld5bgJdXXXj5Z4

    http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/64316

    ABC Online:

    …….The Australian Retailers Association (ARA) says this Christmas will not be a disaster for retailers, despite the global financial crisis.…..”

    SMH:
    “AUSTRALIAN shoppers are expected to spend about $700 million more this Christmas than last, an increase helped by big-spending consumers in NSW.”

    Economic Depressions only ever happen to other people over there. We’re Australians.

    http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/64391
    ————————————————-
    Bethlehem then……..
    http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/64482

    And now……. (Tanks made in U.S.A.)
    http://www.ccmep.org/images/bethlehem040702-4.jpg

  12. 312
    paddy says:

    Morning all. Well it’s such a lovely day here in the depths of sunny Gippsland that I thought I’d do a little surfing around the subject of the US auto industry.
    Goodness me….they don’t half do a good imitation of “denial” in Detroit do they?
    I particularly enjoyed this gem.

    Chrysler discontinued its only hybrid model earlier this fall. It is relying on Nissan of Japan to develop its small cars.

    And, at a briefing for journalists this week, Chrysler showed future models that included more new Jeeps, including an electric one, new pickups and muscle cars, according to Jalopnik.com, a Web site that follows the industry (and whose term for the crisis in Detroit — “carpocalypse” — is catching on in the industry).
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/20/business/20assess.html?_r=1&hp

    Friggin hell!!! *Muscle cars*????
    While “carpocalypse” is yet another atrocity committed on the long suffering English language, by those awful American journalist/bloggers. It actually might be fairly descriptive. :)

    Meanwhile, as an acknowledgment that there are some fine American writers out there.
    I humbly tender the following (completely OT) evidence to the court of ticster opinion.

    Is This The Greatest Craigslist Car Ad Ever Written? Yes.
    http://defamer.com/5114663/is-this-the-greatest-craigslist-car-ad-ever-written-yes

  13. 313
    Kirribilli Removals says:

    Satyajit Das has a funny conclusion to a very good article about why the ‘chimera’ of wealth was kept in place with a form of ‘vendor financing’ where the exporting nations kept their currencies low against the US dollar by buying US debt. This game has come to a savage and abrupt stop, and lots of ‘wealth’ has disappeared:

    There is an apocryphal story about a disgraced rock star who ended up in bankruptcy court. When asked what happened to his fortune of several million dollars, he responded: “Some went in drugs and alcohol, I gambled some of it away, some went on women and the rest I probably wasted!” Financial markets have “wasted” a staggering amount of money that ironically probably did not “exist” in the first place.

    http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/commentary/featuredcommentary?art_id=10166

    …it’s a very interesting read, and basically says that the gig is up for the Seppos, they can’t do it without countries like China pumping in trillions to give them the illusion they are wealthy.

    They aren’t.

  14. 314
    Kirribilli Removals says:

    Paddy, that car ad is a short essay on poverty! LOL

  15. 315
    paddy says:

    Thanks for that excellent Das link Kirri.
    He’s always refreshingly clear (and blunt) when it comes to describing the archane business of international trade etc.

    I love his description of the process as “a gigantic vendor financing scheme.”
    Really sums it up well.

    I was also a bit shocked and surprised to read that

    Russia’s reserves, which rank third after China’s and Japan’s reserves in size, have fallen $122.7 billion, or 21 percent, since August 2008. The reserves, including oil funds that exclusively act as a safety cushion for the budget, stood at $475.4 billion on November 2008.

    For some reason, I’d always assumed that the middle east oil states would rank third. Ah well, whoever ranks wherever……
    It’s obviously going to be a bumpy ride in 2009 :(

    Anyway, time I got outdoors and enjoyed the sunshine, while I can still afford the petrol for a drive to the beach. :)

  16. 316
    Chris B says:

    Franken Takes the Lead in Minnesota

    Democrat Al Franken has taken the lead in the Minnesota Senate recount by 252 votes as of the end of counting yesterday. However, both parties withdrew some challenges which could yet be reinstated. The effect of withdrawing and then reinstating challenges is hard to oversee but the Star Tribune is predicting that Franken will hold a 75-vote lead when all the challenges are resolved. However, there are still 1600 absentee ballots to deal with. Absentee ballots in Minnesota tend to skew Democratic but we won’t know for sure until they are counted. The Minnesota state supreme court ruled this week that absentee ballots that were potentially incorrectly rejected must be examined again so that every legitimate vote is counted.

    even more..
    http://www.electoral-vote.com

  17. 317
    Chris B says:

    Obama’s Cabinet: A Diverse Center-Left Team, Picked Quickly.

    Even since President Bill Clinton vowed in 1992 to appoint a Cabinet that would reflect the American public, presidents have been acutely sensitive to race, gender and regional balance when selecting their inner circle.

    In choosing his Cabinet, President-elect Barack Obama successfully navigated the diversity gauntlet, judging from the generally positive comments that followed the near-daily news conferences he held during the past two weeks to introduce the nominees. If he erred in any respect, it was in over-representing one particular demographic: current and former members of Congress.

    http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=news-000002999989

  18. 318
    Enemy Combatant says:

    Solar powered Muscle car.
    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9RiT7W3Gw

  19. 319
    paddy says:

    318
    ROTFL
    It’s a great idea Ecky, except for one *little* problem.
    The average American wouldn’t even fit in that car.
    Much less be able to close the doors. :mrgreen:

  20. 320
    Chris B says:

    Ukrainian Social Democratic Party holding its seventh congress in Kyiv on Saturday
    The congress is dedicated to the tenth anniversary of the party’s foundation.

    http://www.nrcu.gov.ua/index.php?id=148&listid=81196

  21. 321
    Chris B says:

    ‘Bush Shoe’ Gives Firm a Footing in the Market.

    When a pair of black leather oxfords hurled at President Bush in Baghdad produced a gasp heard around the world, a Turkish cobbler had a different reaction: They were his shoes.

    may need to be registered.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/world/middleeast/21shoe.html?hp

  22. 322
    KatieLou says:

    Just completely off topic and a little pathetic, I want to tell you all of my new addiction – it’s the series “Mad Men”. I’ve just watched series one on DVD and I think it’s amazing – up there with The Sopranos. Actually the guy who wrote it was a writer on The Sopranos. The writing is brilliant and it looks beautiful – the production values are great.
    It starts in 1960 – and it’s set around an advertising firm. It’s main male lead, Don Draper (John Hamm) is drop dead gorgeous, and can be a complete asshole. But like Tony Soprano, he’s just so likeable. The show is terribly hard to watch at times – the men are incredibly sexist, the women are either doormats or sassy mistresses, and everyone seems to have such empty, sad lives.
    So I think you could do worse than if Santa brings you a dvd of Mad Men. Highly recommended.

  23. 323
    Chris B says:

    Barack Obama, family in Hawaii for pre-inaugural vacation.

    Hawaii — The beachfront estate that will serve as the holiday-season headquarters for President-elect Barack Obama and his entourage should offer all the comforts of home—and then some.

    Workers on Saturday were busily preparing the property for the future president, his family and a group of friends from Chicago, in advance of Obama’s arrival in Hawaii during what was Saturday evening on the U.S. mainland.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-obama-hawaii_for_webdec21,0,7654156.story

  24. 324
    Chris B says:

    The Recount: No hanging chads, but plenty of hang-ups.

    An end to the recount seems so close, yet resolving the issue of rejected absentee ballots is far off.
    With just two weeks left before a new Congress convenes, Minnesota’s Senate recount has reached Florida-grade levels of confusion and controversy. Want proof?

    On Wednesday, State Supreme Court Justice Paul Anderson bristled at a lawyer’s comparison of Minnesota’s situation to the famous presidential recount meltdown in the Sunshine State. By Thursday, Anderson was dissenting from his own court’s recount ruling and noting as a bright spot his belief that the court’s order is only a “preliminary skirmish” in “an extended legal contest.”

    http://www.startribune.com/politics/state/36501844.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUX

  25. 325
    Chris B says:

    Electric Mini goes on the charge.

    Video. Must sit through an interesting ad first.
    http://media.drive.com.au/?rid=44687&s_rid=theage:rainbowstrip:content1:19-12_electricmini_2

  26. 326
    Chris B says:

    Talk about a slow news day.

    But hey! Here are a stack of shoe cartoons.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28310971/displaymode/1107/s/2/framenumber/1/

  27. 327
    Enemy Combatant says:

    Katielou, how would you rate “Mad Men” against the recent Pommy series, Absolute Power, with Stepen Fry as the PR bullshit artistissimo?

    paddy, it’s the E-V power plant that matters, mate, chassis sizes can be manufactured to accomodate varying commuter morphologies. Apart from biospheric considerations, what I’m looking forward to most about our next “runabout” is each time I/we(Min & me) cruise silently by a Big Carbon fuel stop shop, we’re gonna get a special thrill.

    Might even lash out for designer rego plates:

    FUBIGC

    Won’t be happy till all un-necessary Big Carbon & Allied consumers are cursed with the mark of Commuter Cain. On an “it’s the only planet we’ve got basis” basis, my stance on the issue is hardline. For the benefit of all who come after us.
    —————————————–
    http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/64462

    Ground Effect
    http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/64463

    Euclidian Moral Geometry—-SEC-style
    http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/64479

  28. 328
    KatieLou says:

    EC – I only watched a couple of episodes of “Absolute Power”, so I can’t really rate them. I would expect they’re too different to compare. My guess is also that Mad Men focuses more on interpersonal relationships and development of self, than the issue of power itself. Mad Men is more about people than advertising. As I said before, I think it’s on a simliar level to The Sopranos, which I think was pretty incredible.

  29. 329
    Enemy Combatant says:

    Ok, KatieLou, thanks. Thought The Sopranos was outstanding too. Had a geek at a couple of Mad Men clips on Youie. Will definitely give it a burl.
    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=dbVVeIFomvk&NR=1

  30. 330
    Gaffhook says:

    EC
    Mike Connell was the bloke Spoonerman was lining up to give evidence about the Diebold voting in 2004.
    He will not be giving evidence now.

    I don’t usually reveal sources, but I think this is incredibly important. Michael Connell died in a plane crash last night. He was a key witness in the Ohio election fraud case that I have been reporting on. More importantly, however, he had information that he was ready to share.

    http://www.opednews.com/articles/Programmer-who-rigged-2004-by-Larisa-Alexandrovn-081220-953.html

  31. 331
    Gaffhook says:

    Kirri
    Is another one about to bite the dust? GE Madhoff!!!!!!

    The virtual crash in its stock price indicates that there is something seriously wrong with GE. The stock reached $53 at its peak in 2000. It closed below $17 this past week, the lowest level since the mid-1990s. CEO Jeffrey Immelt, who took over from icon Jack Welch in 2001, has made his mark by managing the company to a 68% decline in its stock price. You will not see anyone on CNBC take a hard look at GE’s financial statements or ask the CEO tough questions, because Mr. Immelt signs their paychecks. While shareholders have taken a bath, Mr. Immelt, a Harvard MBA, raked in $72.2 million of compensation between 2002 and 2007. A company that is known for its pay for performance mantra evidently does not hold its CEO to the same standards.

  32. 332
  33. 333
    Chris B says:

    330 Gaffhook I wonder how many other deaths there will be?

  34. 334
    Gaffhook says:

    Like you said Kirri the Madhoff scheme gets madder and madder.

    Uncle Sam may be looking at a big tax refund for his investors and they are trying to find insurance schemes that may pay out on it. That is if they have not already gone Rsup. LOL

    Investors who lost their fortunes in Madoff’s alleged Ponzi scheme will end up paying far less in taxes and may even be eligible for refunds, according to accounting experts.
    By some estimates, the Internal Revenue Service could be out as much as $17 billion in lost tax revenue.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-madoff-scandal-taxes,1,3489928.story

  35. 335
    Chris B says:

    Why am I not surprised.

  36. 336
    Enemy Combatant says:

    Just a coincidence that he was killed in a solo flight of course, Gaffy. Could have happened to anyone. The fact that he was about to spill his guts major on BushCo’s treachery from an insider’s perspective is neither here nor there.

    Sun Dec 21:
    http://news.yahoo.com/comics/nonsequitur;_ylt=A0wNcwfiC05JFxoBykgDwLAF

  37. 337
    Gaffhook says:

    Olberman gives the Imbecile and Cheney a bit of a kick in the guts to keep the pot boiling.

    As the departing Bush administration frantically attempts to shore up its place in history, MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann stands ready to kick the props out from under it again. A renewed claim that “no one could have anticipated” the attacks of 9/11 attracted his scorn in particular on Thursday’s Countdown.

    http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Olbermann_White_House_owes_apology_to_1219.html

  38. 338
    Gaffhook says:

    When you listen to Olbermans video and then listen to this video of a sequence of events it is oh so how do you put it.

    http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=GrpNBPTm6G0

  39. 339
    Gaffhook says:

    Kirri
    Get your Abbacus around this lot.
    Should we buy now?

    Folks…it’s not going to matter how able Barak Obama is at turning a phrase or being a politician. The St Louis Federal Reserve numbers say it all in a single picture……………….

    So, by March, 2009, if the world hasn’t informed us in no uncertain terms that we are in for a ride that will make the Great Depression a footnote in most history texts, we can declare ourselves extremely fortunate, indeed, because there has NEVER been a mess created like this EVER before. Ever. We’re all pioneers on an icy road headed straight to hell.

    http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=11219

  40. 340
    Chris B says:

    Things look positive for Franken

    Franken Expects to Win by 35-50 Votes
    Democrat Al Franken has announced that he expects to be elected senator by 35-50 votes. The Minneapolis Star Tribune has estimated Franken will win by 75 votes, so Franken was actually being a bit modest. Sen. Norm Coleman (R-MN) has not made a prediction. Counting will resume tomorrow.

    http://www.electoral-vote.com

  41. 341
    Chris B says:

    More Losses For Senate Republicans?

    Democrats could pick up seats again in 2010 — if Obama’s second-year approval ratings are high.

    After losing a total of 13 or 14 seats (depending on the outcome in Minnesota) in the nightmarish 2006 and 2008 Senate elections, Republicans must be fantasizing about 2012, when 24 Democratic and just nine Republican Senate seats will be up for grabs.

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/cr_20081220_4906.php

  42. 342
    David Gould says:

    Why is the fact that this guy died on a solo flight more suspicious than if he had died in a flight with many other people?

    Bad weather in Ohio at this time of year. And it had been raining, with the surface temperature around two degrees. Not the best time to be flying a small plane.

    But I guess when it is discovered by investigators that pilot error combined with bad weather conditions were the cause of the crash, that will simply prove how far the conspiracy reaches …

  43. 343
    Chris B says:

    ‘Irish Obama’ band hits big time.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7794385.stm

  44. 344
    Chris B says:

    342 David Gould “Why is the fact that this guy died on a solo flight more suspicious than if he had died in a flight with many other people?”
    It’s no more suspicious to me. The fact that he was due to testify in a Diebold case makes it very suspicious.

  45. 345
    Chris B says:

    342 David Gould David If I wanted to bump off someone without raising suspicion, the time to do it would be in bad weather. Another way not to raise suspicion, would be look to have a look at their medical history and see if they had a bad heart or a drug problem.

  46. 346
    Chris B says:

    You don’t want it to be too easy to pick out a conspiracy. There would be a lot of people around with that sort of experience. Do you remember the cold war?

  47. 347
    David Gould says:

    Chris B,

    People involved in stuff die all the time. This is because people are … people. And they have a much higher risk of dying when they fly small planes in bad weather conditions. Occam’s razor: do not multiply entities unnecessarily. All that is needed for a plane to crash is poor weather and pilot error. It does not need a vast right-wing conspiracy willing and able to commit murder.

    Conspiracy theorists and theists are very similar. They both believe that many unrelated and random events are connected through some grand plan. The main difference is that theists tend to believe that the grand plan is benevolent, while conspiracy theorists tend to believe that it is malevolent.

    The ability to see patterns everywhere is in many instances a good thing – it has been key to humanity gaining more and more control over its environment. But it can also be a bad thing, as we have a tendency to see patterns where none exist.

  48. 348
    David Gould says:

    Chris B,

    But it was easy – you guys spotted the conspiracy just like that. You saw the pattern without any problems whatsoever.

    But that is because the pattern is in your heads and you fit events to it, rather than the other way around.

  49. 349
    David Gould says:

    As an example of the problem with conspiracy theories, the population of the US is around 300 million. Around 2.5 million Americans die every year. Let us be generous and say that there are 2 deaths for every 400 people. That means for every 200 people there will be one death every year.

    A court case such as this one is likely to involve around 20 witnesses, plus five lawyers, plus some plaintiffs. But let us say only 20 people are involved. The case has run for at least two years now. Assuming it is just two years, that gives us close to a 20 per cent chance that one of the 20 central people involved will have died over that time period.

  50. 350
    Katielou says:

    I wish for all ticsters an uneventful Christmas. May it be quiet and lazy, or noisy and fun is OK too, just so long as it is drama free for you all. That’s my idea of a good Christmas.

  51. 351
    Chris B says:

    Then how come it’s mainly people with left wing views that seem to be very high on the mysterious death lists and right wings are not? If the statistics worked the same way for both groups OK. But they don’t. Statistically speaking both groups should have about the same number of accidental deaths.

  52. 352
    Chris B says:

    For instance soccer players travel the world, in all sorts of weather INCLUDING bad weather. There is only one major accident, that is the Manchester United team that was almost wiped out.

  53. 353
    David Gould says:

    Chris B,

    Can you point me to the statistics that show that people with left-wing views are more likely to die than people with right-wing views? I very much doubt that such statistics are kept anywhere. I think that you may well be a victim of confirmation bias in this regard.

    Further, have you read the ‘Clinton death lists’ circulated by the right? These are people associated with Bill Clinton in some way who have – supposedly – died mysteriously. The implication is that Bill had them all killed.

  54. 354
    Chris B says:

    Merry XMAS KatieLou and others.

  55. 355
    Chris B says:

    See 252

  56. 356
    David Gould says:

    /sarcasm

    And the Manchester United players all had left-wing views, too …

    /sarcasm

  57. 357
    Chris B says:

    And Hillary is a secret lesbian.

  58. 358
    Chris B says:

    Ah ha! :lol:

  59. 359
    David Gould says:

    Just a few examples to think about, Chris:

    The Torino F.C. side known as Il Grande Torino that dominated post-war Italian football was lost in an air crash at Superga in 1949

    The 1989 crash of Surinam Airways Flight PY764 killed a group of Surinamese players known as “The Colorful 11″, whose members played professional football in the Netherlands

    18 members of the Zambia national football team died in a 1993 air crash

    In 1987, the entire roster of Peruvian football team Alianza Lima died in an air crash

    Taken from:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_air_disaster

  60. 360
    David Gould says:

    And I too echo Katielou: merry Christmas! :)

  61. 361
    Chris B says:

    Think we might have to wait till after Xmas for any decent political story. It’s a slow news week unless a soccer team has a plane crash.

  62. 362
    Chris B says:

    OK David, I will do a list of Musicians, Movie stars and Politicians with left wing views. You do a control group of cricketers, basketball players and soccer players and see who gets the most. Note: A group of soccer players in a single plane or bus crash counts as one crash.

  63. 363
    Chris B says:

    What time span will we work it over?

  64. 364
    David Gould says:

    Um, there are far more musicians, movie stars and politicians of any note than there are cricketers, basketball players and soccer players for a start.

    The only way this would work is if we got two populations of similar size that travelled by air the same amount over the same time period.

    To find such groups would take a heck of a lot of research.

    I will also point out that you were the one who made the specific claim. Thus, you are the one who should do all the work to demonstrate it. ;)

  65. 365
    David Gould says:

    Thinking about it, politicians are probably not too bad. Given that at any period of time, roughly half of the politicians are ‘right-wing’ and half are ‘left-wing’ as defined by their party affiliation, it would not be a subjective exercise to classify them, either.

  66. 366
    Catrina says:

    David Gould at a bunch of places on this page …

    You have convinced me that there is an American lead conspiracy to wipe out the only true football game (a.k.a. soccer) from the face of the planet.

  67. 367
    David Gould says:

    Nicholas J. Begich Politician 6-Apr-1932 16-Oct-1972 Congressman from Alaska, 1971-72 DEMOCRATIC
    Hale Boggs Politician 15-Feb-1914 16-Oct-1972 Congressman from Louisiana, 1941-72 DEMOCRATIC
    Ron Brown Government 1-Aug-1941 3-Apr-1996 US Commerce Secretary 1993-96
    DEMOCRATIC
    Mel Carnahan Politician 11-Feb-1934 16-Oct-2000 Dead man, still defeated John Ashcroft
    DEMOCRATIC
    George Washington Collins Politician 5-Mar-1925 8-Dec-1972 Congressman from Illinois, 1970-72
    DEMOCRATIC
    John Heinz Politician 23-Oct-1938 4-Apr-1991 US Senator from Pennsylvania, 1977-91 REPUBLICAN
    Mickey Leland Politician 27-Nov-1944 7-Aug-1989 Congressman from Texas, 1979-89 DEMOCRATIC
    Jerry Litton Politician 12-May-1937 3-Aug-1976 Congressman from Missouri, 1973-76 DEMOCRATIC
    George S. Mickelson Politician 31-Jan-1941 19-Apr-1993 Governor of South Dakota, 1987-93 REPUBLICAN
    DeLesseps S. Morrison Politician 18-Jan-1912 22-May-1964 Mayor of New Orleans, 1946-61 DEMOCRATIC
    Donald G. Nutter Politician 28-Nov-1915 25-Jan-1962 Governor of Montana, 1961-62 REPUBLICAN
    Larkin Smith Politician 26-Jun-1944 13-Aug-1989 Congressman from Mississippi, 1989 REPUBLICAN
    John Tower Politician 25-Sep-1925 5-Apr-1991 US Senator from Texas, 1961-85
    REPUBLICAN
    Paul Wellstone Politician 21-Jul-1944 25-Oct-2002 US Senator killed in plane crash
    DEMOCRATIC

    This is a list that I have found online: nine Democrats, five Republicans.

    However, given the switch over in the 1960s, it would probably be hard to argue that, for example, that a Democratic mayor from New Orleans in the 1940s and 50s would have been left-wing. And there are a couple of other like that.

    So, unfortunately, there is still some subjectivity there. :(

  68. 368
    David Gould says:

    And we do not know that that list is in any way exhaustive. I would suspect that it is not.

  69. 369
    David Gould says:

    Catrina @ 366

    You should not have posted that. Now we … I mean they know that you suspect …

  70. 370
    Chris B says:

    I’m up to 321. How many have you got David.

    Here we even have the numbers according to cause of death.

    http://www.av1611.org/rockdead.html

  71. 371
    Chris B says:

    Hey, as a stats man you should love the figures in there.

  72. 372
    David Gould says:

    After considerable statistical analysis of those figures, the mathematical rule seems to be: don’t be a rock star if you want to live a long time.

  73. 373
    David Gould says:

    There are only 22 deaths by air crash there. And there is no breakdown for political views. However, we can apply this general rule of thumb: if you were a rock star and you died before you were 40, the chances are that you were left wing all your life …

  74. 374
    Chris B says:

    Hey it’s a religious site have a look down the bottom. Woah!

  75. 375
    David Gould says:

    Even religious sites can provide useful statistical data. After all, as all these rock stars are in Hell they must have had left wing political views. This confirms the thesis.

  76. 376
    Chris B says:

    OK David you win it was god that killed these non believers.

  77. 377
    Chris B says:

    No conspiracy here, god did it.

  78. 378
    David Gould says:

    And he kills them and sends them to eternity in Hell so benevolently, doesn’t he?

  79. 379
    Chris B says:

    I’ve only just discovered a group called the Bar-Kays. A number called Soul Finger. Now I find out the died in a pane crash. I’ll go soon, for listening to their music.

  80. 380
  81. 381
    Chris B says:

    Here is how fast the Internet reports. Man in plane crash tells friends via Twitter.
    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24833113-663,00.html

  82. 382
    jen says:

    Just had family Christmas – only 3 more days to go and it’s over.

  83. 383
    paddy says:

    Hang in there jen.
    Just make sure you don’t run out of wine or chocolate and it will be alright. :)
    http://harolds-planet.blogspot.com/2004/12/how-to-survive-christmas.html

  84. 384
    jen says:

    Thanks Paddy! Inspiring words.
    Does anyone else find this whole Yuletide thing a nightmare???
    i know it’s meant to be about fun and good times but I find it an endless stream of spending time with people I’d rather not and very little with the people I actually like!

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