Viva El Salvador! A century of solitude no more

And anyone who is interested in the climate change should read about Freeman Dyson’s views. His is a mind that cannot be ignored, but he challenges many of the current beliefs:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29Dyson-t.html?pagewanted=1&ref=magazine

…so, should we NOT gentecially modify trees to absorb more carbon from the atmosphere????LOL

On Dyson’s views on climate change, it is interesting to me that those scientists who are sceptical are so often non-specialists in the field of climate.

As to GM, bring it on. In fact, I want to be genetically modified. Gene me up, baby. 🙂

paddy – gorgeous!

Apparently Obi has demanded the head of GM’ head – on a plate – if they want anymore dosh . Might be symbolic but I bet there will be lots of soiled undies in the finance sector at the moment. 😎

ooops – sorry CB- just trawled and realised you’d already posted it 😳

Will Europe embrace President Obama like candidate Obama?
They gave him their hearts when he visited last summer. Now, the question hanging over Europe is how much more they’ll give Barack Obama as he returns for the first time as president of the United States.

Obama leaves on Tuesday on a whirlwind eight-day tour. He remains enormously popular in Europe, and the throngs that greeted him last summer as a candidate are likely to grow. With first lady Michelle Obama along, Obama’s debut on the world stage as president already is inspiring anticipation of the kind of rock-star reception that greeted John and Jackie Kennedy on their first trip a first couple to Europe in 1961.

Yet Obama also heads into his first overseas trip with grand goals _ looking to forge a coordinated global response to the Great Recession, hoping Europe will send more of its sons and daughters to help in an escalating war in Afghanistan, and seeking to restore international cooperation that he thinks suffered in the Bush years.

read more on McClatchy

Leading Progressive Organizations, Unions to Announce Major Campaign to Pass President Obama’s Historic Budget, a Blueprint for Rebuilding and Renewing America

Washington D.C. – Leading progressive organizations and unions which led the fight to pass President Obama’s jobs and economic recovery package have announced a major new campaign to pass President Obama’s historic budget.

The groups plan to substantially ratchet up all the same tools, techniques and strategies behind the successful campaign to pass the President’s jobs plan into law, from grassroots events and phone calls and emails into Members of Congress’ offices, to paid advertising. More than 40 major organizations have so far signed onto the $5-7 million campaign to ‘Rebuild and Renew America Now.’

Read lots more on the campaign to rebuild and renew America

Montenegro’s ruling coalition has claimed victory in its parliamentary election, bolstering the government’s efforts to join the EU and Nato.

An official from Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic’s party claimed victory in a TV broadcast in front of supporters.

Early projections suggest the ruling bloc won more than 50% of the vote, its nearest rivals taking about 16%.

The country’s leaders held the election early, saying a new mandate was needed to push through their reforms.

Hours after polls closed, the Democratic Party of Socialists’ political director Predrag Sekulic told supporters the ruling coalition had won.

“This victory is even more important because it comes at a time of the speeding up of European integration and the maturing of democracy in Montenegro,” he said.

Another victory for the Left.

read more of this story on BBC News

I have no problem with Krugman’s motives. He in all likelihood has legitimate disagreement with Obama’s policies. But that does not mean that he is right. It does not mean that Obama’s policies are right, either, of course. But Krugman’s view is simply one view among many, imo.

Kirri at 702; from your link which the author filed on November 6, 2008 on his high volume (one comment) thread and btw, the one and only unreplied-to comment made a very good point too:

“Today there is a strong lobby calling for a return to organic agriculture. This affluence-centered ideology can not effectively support the less fortunate or future pressures of a growing human population.”

“Affluence-centred”,….” Can not effectively support the less fortunate”

Oh, really?

Let’s take a peek at Cuba, mate.

“Cuba, (which is described by an inordinate number of educated folk as a third world country) has in the past 18 years transformed its food production using low-input, or organic agriculture and, to some degree, permaculture. Havana produces up to 50% of its food requirements within the city limits, all of it is organic and produced by people in their homes, gardens and in municipal spaces.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture

Of course this sort of agriculture is antithetical to the vested interests of the likes of Monasanto because Monsanto can’t control the process and turn an agri-business megabuck from it as did their “forebears”, the United Fruit Company, but to suggest that people who choose to feed themselves and their kids in such fashion are harbouring a “nascent Luddite attitude” is a tad harsh.

Perhaps if the ~ two billion folk who Dr Borlaug identifies as being in danger of imminent starvation were able to access the nutritional and long term health benefits of organic/ permaculture in their backyards, rooftops, side-walls of dwelling and village plots, then they will be in a stronger position to not only survive and reproduce on a Darwinian basis, but to really get a gustatory bang from their tucker. 🙂

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpBOyRXu6J8

Even in the most arid regions, if there is there is a political will, there’s a way.
Certainly overpopulation, wars, refugees and those scoundrels the four horsemen of the apocalypse are major obstacles to peaceful permaculture, however, the process itself is sustainable and something towards which the collective Homo Sap should strive, imho.
http://permaculturetokyo.blogspot.com/2009/01/instant-wadi-well-for-arid-climates.html

Gaia forever. Man.

Ecky, the entire proposition is that across ALL of the planet, ‘organic’ farming will not sustain the entire human population by a VERY large factor. Citing one location, although perhaps laudable for many reasons, does not address the problems that face mankind over very diverse geographic regions.

(Nice try!) LOL

One criticism of the ‘only organic’ brigade is that it’s the tyranny of those who have never worried about the grocery bills over those who eek out fragile existences on the margins. There is, I submit (as one who has lived and worked on organic farms!) that there’s a lot of truth in that statement.

Before dismissing him, just contemplate what he has achieved for millions of human beings:

Norman Ernest Borlaug (born March 25, 1914) is an American agronomist, humanitarian, Nobel laureate, and has been called the father of the Green Revolution.[1] Borlaug is one of five people in history to have won the Nobel Peace Prize, the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Gold Medal.[2] He is also an awardee of the Padma Vibhushan, India’s highest civilian honour to non-citizens of exemplary accomplishment.

Borlaug received his Ph.D. degree in plant pathology and genetics from the University of Minnesota in 1942. He took up an agricultural research position in Mexico, where he developed semi-dwarf high-yield, disease-resistant wheat varieties.

During the mid-20th century, Borlaug led the introduction of these high-yielding varieties combined with modern agricultural production techniques to Mexico, Pakistan, and India. As a result, Mexico became a net exporter of wheat by 1963. Between 1965 and 1970, wheat yields nearly doubled in Pakistan and India, greatly improving the food security in those nations. These collective increases in yield have been labeled the Green Revolution, and Borlaug is often credited with saving over a billion people from starvation.[3] He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1970 in recognition of his contributions to world peace through increasing food supply.

More recently, he has helped apply these methods of increasing food production to Asia and Africa. Borlaug has continually advocated the use of his methods and biotechnology to decrease world famine. His work has faced environmental and socioeconomic criticisms, including charges that his methods have created dependence on monoculture crops, unsustainable farming practices, heavy indebtedness among subsistence farmers, and high levels of cancer among those who work with agriculture chemicals. He has emphatically rejected many of these as unfounded or untrue.[citation needed]In 1986, he established the World Food Prize to recognize individuals who have improved the quality, quantity or availability of food around the globe.

(Wiki)

I guess we can dismiss his assessments with some new age faith based karma added agriculture then? LOL

Nude man running through Paris with his pole in his hands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZqkqJB_Yeo

Kirri, if Permaculture is sustainable in the tropics, the sub-tropics and wadi-fied groins of arid regions then that’ll do for starters. Reasonable people would exclude Antatctica, Lapland, Northern Siberia and similar longitudes due to regional weather inclemencies. And biospheric average temps will have to rise a little furthur before Gondwanaland can be factored in as a continent of pastoral plenty.
The catchcry of “ALL of the planet, ‘organic’ ” is the province of fanatics. From previous discussions we are agreed that these are dangerous people who are beyond persuasion and reason.

They were clearly going to have a hard time keeping a lad like your good self “down on the farm”.
I think what you are saying in your penultimate sentence at 721 is that it’s people like the peers of the Melbourne microbiology prof. when he was in the UK, who condescendingly proselytise about all things organic without ever having got their own hands dirty, n’est-ce pas?

Were your folks “alternative” or did you do the Mr. Natural bit after you’d flown the co-op?

http://www.zubeworld.com/crumbmuseum/nat111.gif

So what if thet grow baccy in Cuba? And import food and export medical doctors. That doesn’t diminish the fact that sustainable permaculture can be implemented there, or anywhere else half arable.

Kirribilli Removals @ 702:
Boy howdy! That’s a mighty fine straw man you built there Kirribilli. So big and solid I think it must be the first Wicker Man argument I’ve seen on this ‘ere blog! 😉
Your position is correct. You may even be right that some people reading this hold the position that you attacked, but it isn’t my position.
Even with natural horticultural practices, the characteristics of the produce that we all consume has been slanted toward the needs of the distributors. Forget flavour and variety: shelf life is the key determining factor of whether your local Stupid-Market stocks the product.
I try very hard not to be a cynic, but I’m convinced that trend will be accelerated with GM technology, and find it hard to believe that the patent holders will use their assets to “feed the world”.

Now to this:

The only feature I can reconcile is a nascent Luddite attitude that all technology is inherently evil, and this may be the underlying connection.

This was a revelation: today I was in the local store looking for some green prawns. The only ones available were frozen. As is my wont, I turned my elitist nose up at them!
Before today I had thought that my reticence was based on flavour and texture, but have now been enlightened to my luddite attitude to freezer technology. Damn you! 😉

surely, like most issues, the answer lies somewhere in between.
Permaculture/ organic/ subsistance farming has to be a good thing where it can be readily done, as it reduces the demand on scarce food supplies in regions where it is difficult to support themselves – therefore it should be encouraged and practiced where viable.
Equally, the genetic enhancement of certain crops to cope with diminishing water, increasing pollution etc is smart as long as this can be somehow safeguraded against the tyrranny of monopolising chemical companies and the hazards of reducing the gene poll to a point where any unexpected variable causes devastation.
I would like to think we are smart enough to encompass all the nuanced and complex factors and stop thinking in monotheistic black-and -white terms.
Then again …
history is against us when it comes to common sense.
🙁

So now I’m supposedly arguing for tasteless food!

Yeah, I hate tasteless food too. But tell me one GM vegetable you can buy??????????????

Sorry, but that is NOT my argument, or anything like it.

Genetic modification like improving the vitamin content of staples can save thousands of lives and improve life for millions at no risk to anyone.

This is not an argument about taste, that’s trivialising life and death issues.

It seems I’ve stumbled into a lot of attitudes that aren’t much engaged with the serious issues on this planet.

As for permaculture, please don’t tell me there’s a conspiracy to suppress this miracle which could feed the world, but for the evil agricultural companies.

Please, just think for ONE moment: if it could provide the world’s food then it would be raging all over the world. It isn’t, and it isn’t because it’s about ‘lifestyle’ and “not touching the earth with metal” (yep, I heard that one in the 1970’s as the rationale for every action! LOL). In other words, it borders on religion, and frankly, usually goes hand in hand with lots of other New Age claptrap. Not that it’s not got uses and advantages in SOME situations, but feed the planet it will not.

Not this century, or any other.

Kirri@735
geez Kirri – perhaps you have had a tad too much exposure to complete loonies – present company excepted.
if you can’t touch the earth with metal WTF are you meant to dig the holes with???
Like I said. Oh Sagacious One – surely there can be a balance.
Don’t give up on us yet – we’re not all complete fuckwits.

Although at least we can all agree a certain GWB is 😈

Kirribilli Removals I wasn’t accussing you of arguing for tasteless food. I was explaining my position. To be a bit clearer: I’m supportive of GM technology – I just want clear labeling so that if it is shit I don’t accidentally buy it!

And if you think any GM technology is going to save the world from hunger, then I hope you are right. I’ll cynically wait and see.

Jen I’m an (allegedly) new Luddy! Luddy-Lite! 😉
Being a coast dweller in my youth, I’m used to seafood that one has just gathered. I cringe every time I pay money for something on ice. Such is the price for being expelled from Eden. 😉

Flaneur, the GM ‘debate’ is wildly polluted with some incredible assertions that border on hysteria which I find almost amusing if it wasn’t so serious.

Most of the GM food, like herbicide resistant or pest resistant is grown BECAUSE it is far better for the environment. That no effect to human health, nor mechanism whereby it could occur, has ever been cited seems to make no impact on the anti-GM brigade.

They don’t ‘do’ evidence. THey have ‘faith’ that it’s evil, for reasons we all kind of know, but what they do not ever seem to grasp is that food production is under immense strain, and human populations MUST find better, more efficient, and less environmentally damaging ways of growing it. Many GM introduced plants have done this.

Before GM it was left to natural breeding and none of us would exist without them. In the future, generations will eat because of GM developments.

(But notice I’ve not claimed that every GM organism is going to be a success, nor EVER have some problem, just that we manage these risks like we must with all things.)

There’s no doubt Jen that in our hippy phase there were many good ideas and justifiable critiques of where our materialist consumerism was leading, and yes, way too much ‘woo woo’ stuff as Mrs KR likes to call it! LOL

But sometimes I think we spawned a monster, an implaccable resistance to any technology that does not provide instant gratification (like iPods and Nintendo!) and an almost pathological belief that there’s a global cabal that’s trying to take over the world with its high tech solutions. OK, I’ve not expressed this perfectly, but surely, you know what I’m talking about.

And it’s all got origins in the seventies rebellion, and it’s as puerile today as it was then.

Kirribilli Removals, I don’t think we have a difference of opinion that matters. GM technology is just an extension of what humans have been doing for millenia except for one aspect: the results are controlled to an extra order of magnitude.

Using the patent system to develop food is wrong.
Preventing a grower from using their produce as seed is wrong.

Most of the GM food, like herbicide resistant or pest resistant is grown BECAUSE it is far better for the environment.

I’d suggest that it is grown because it is profitable. I’d wager my last remaining scruple that if they produce a strain of crop that was “cheaper” (in the context of the grower) then that is the strain that’d be grown over any other strain that was “better for the environment”.

And from the “Better Late Then Never” department:

But tell me one GM vegetable you can buy??????????????

You sly dog! You know they don’t label them. 😉

Actually Flaneur, I wasn’t being funny, well, not intentionally. I’m just not aware of any genetically modified vegetables being grown here for human consumption.

Educate me if the reality is otherwise.

Hmm, Bastards with a bar. Scary.

Yeah, I think GM canola is used here.

So far I’ve not heard of any evidence that it’s caused any health problems, but no doubt that’s because no one can tell if they’ve eaten it. Therefore it’s probably caused herpes and premature death! LOL

I vaguely recall some company trying to put a pig or fish gene in something and there was a terrible hue and cry.

It’s ironic because I tell my kids that they have a lot of genes in common with the banana (which is a simple genetic fact, since all life is related and so many solutions have survived VAST tracts of time because they work. Nature does not tend to invent the wheel over and over again when it doesn’t need to)

Kirri, if one doesn’t want to personally grow one’s own organic tucker, one can purchase it at an organic market. It’s not necessary to aspire to fulltime paysano-ism. Our local weekly Org-Mart is going ganbusters and two nearby supermarkets are now carrying “organic” sections because, one assumes, they are feeling the heat. 🙂

Fair enough though, you’ve lived the life organic and seen the not so blissful downside first hand. You speak with the authority of a man whose fingers have sifted the soil, been hands-on with agriculture’s complexities, so to speak, and one must respect your expertise.
Sure, we are realists here, not flat-earthers. What parent wouldn’t feed their hungry child monocultural fodder if there was no alternative?

Lenny Bruce razzes a Lucky Strike telly commercial:
Perplexed questioner:
“But all marijuana’s the same isn’t it?!…….”

The Voice of Authority:
“That’s the mistake a lot of people make!”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwVxuu6Ugmg&feature=related

Attitudes to tobacco sure have changed a lot in fifty years. Perhaps it might not take quite so long when it comes to optimal nutrition.

Flaneur, it’s more likely that GM crops will be very diverse and tailored for specific conditions eg salt, heat tolerant in some places.

Unlike the Middle Ages, the human population has exploded, and will put enormous pressure on agriculture as it increases to about 9 billion before it stabilises. That’s 50% more people than now.

Imagine having to make arable land that much more productive without using every available technology. GM will undoubtedly be one of the big ones in the arsenal.

(And this is without the probable loss of many areas due to climate change, eg Murray Darling basin. Drought tolerance will be a big one here, and GM will be the ONLY way to get some crops up and running in time to fill the gap.)

The best thing about tucker corporations like Monsanto, Flaneur, is they have a totally different mindset to the Wall St. Masters of The Universe who some amongst us here suggest would perform more “honestly” if they were nationalised.

Goddamn commies!

Unlike the Middle Ages, the human population has exploded, and will put enormous pressure on agriculture as it increases to about 9 billion before it stabilises. That’s 50% more people than now.

Okay, back of the envelope calculations: the total cultivated land usage (excluding pasture!) is about 1.951 billion acres in China (I chose China ’cause it is densely populated and it was the best result in Google 😉 )
Given that western utilisation, excluding GM crops, can achieve yields of at least 30 bushels per acre for wheat (higher for other grain crops, and much higher for irrigated crops) results in China (given Western yields sans GM) could provide for approximately 7 billion people; and a yield of 50 bushels (a high end expectation) would support 12 billion people, I don’t think the situation is as grim as the (and I really, really mean the smilely) Frankenstein-Food pushers would have us believe. 🙂

Now, all we need do is appoint Enemy Combatant as the People’s Dictator and all will be well. Oops, there goes my candidacy.

Now I really am going to retire to a quiet corner for the night.

Sadly, Flaneur, my Min (read Minister for War) bless ‘er organic cotton socks, has forbidden me from seeking public office, so one must politely decline your kind nomination suggestion. However…….if you’d like to toss in a couple of return business tickets to Cathay, one may be forced to reconsider. 🙂
———————-
“i detest NewAge crystal healing pinklight energy wank .”

Geez, jen, you mean you didn’t catch Captain Cosmic and The Crystals live at Stone Henge during the summer solstice?
Neil saw ‘em and he reckoned they were far out. Man.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39031000/jpg/_39031969_neil_270.jpg
—————————————-

http://www.truthdig.com/cartoon/item/20090330_not_limbaughs_crowd/

Oh, and HH, can I get back on that one too! LOL

You’ve really opened the whole can of worms there!