An interview with a former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski speaking to the subject of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the recent escalation in tensions leading to the December 2008 Israeli-Hamas Conflict.
From Wikipedia is a definition of Retributive Justice …
Retributive justice is a theory of justice that considers that proportionate punishment is a morally acceptable response to crime, with an eye to the satisfaction and psychological benefits it can bestow to the aggrieved party, its intimates and society.
Further reading on the Wikipedia definition of retribution, the following statement appears …
In ethics and law “Let the punishment fit the crime” is the principle that the severity of penalty for a misdeed or wrongdoing should be reasonable and proportional to the severity of the infraction. The concept is common to most cultures throughout the world. Its presence in the ancient Jewish culture is shown by its inclusion in the law of Moses, specifically in Deuteronomy 19:17-21, which includes the punishments of “life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.” Many other documents reflect this value in the world’s cultures. However, the judgement of whether a punishment is appropriately severe can vary greatly between cultures and individuals.
599 replies on “Retribution”
297 Gaffhook Sounds all right. The only way you would know is to give one a run to see how it goes. It’s free so you’ve got nothing to lose. I’ll try it as well.
I’ve got it running on my computer, as another user. That way its out of the way and doesn’t interfere with anything I’m doing. It should take just over half an hour. I’ll let you know. It is very easy to use.
Obama expects stimulus after inauguration.
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obama-expects-stimulus-after-inauguration-2009-01-04.html
Gaffy 22% done.
Chris
Use the playground page for this stuff.
Politco
Obama to detail economic vision.
lots more….
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17042.html
OK.
Cheney is a monstrosity Gaffy. An unnatural act created him and then that doofus Idiot Decider allowed this ghoul to take over the levers of government.
What a nightmare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5te9f88LYuU
Talk about depressing! Enough to turn a bloke’s thoughts to visiting the sisters of mercy or maybe visiting some existentialist cowboy junkie.
🙂
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BHRFZFmEq9o
News from the Votemaster
Minnesota Senate Race May Be Certified Today
more…
http://www.electoral-vote.com
M live.
Now let me think. Do we risk the Republicans throwing a tantrum over them not being able to throw a spanner in the works? Or do we want to be able to pass good legislation without the Republicans interfering? Let me think. Hmmmm, it’s such a hard decision.
http://www.mlive.com/us-politics/index.ssf/2009/01/gop_protests_term_limit_change.html
Arkansas Matters.
Hearings Start this Week for Members of Obama’s Cabinet.
more..
http://arkansasmatters.com/content/fulltext/?cid=171531
KR, you have a fellow-traveller: William Buiter, the bankers’ economist….
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/01/willem-buiter-calls-for-less-us.html
“…..The US Federal government has taken on massive additional contingent liabilities through its bail out/underwriting of the US financial system (and possibly other bits of the US economic system that are too politically connected to fail). Together with the foreseeable increase in actual Federal government liabilities because of vastly increased future Federal deficits, this implies the need for a future private to public sector resource transfer that is most unlikely to be politically feasible without recourse to inflation. The only alternative is default on the Federal debt. There is little doubt, in my view, that the Federal authorities will choose the inflation and currency depreciation route over the default route.
If I can figure this out, so can anyone in the US or abroad who follows recent economic developments. The dawning of the realisation will lead to the dumping of the assets….”
Jen, I concur: Garrett has done well as far as I can make out…..due process according to the law….I like that sort of thing….makes me feel that sometimes the system will work. Right now, we need to believe that more than usual….
More than 10,000 citizens lost their lives in a matter of months due to malnutrition in the ‘Hunger winter” in Europe,1944, a consequence of ‘military strategies’.
Let’s hope we don’t have a repeat of this in Gaza.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7812295.stm
313 BlindO
Yeah, there seems to be a growing list of economists who see this deflationary period as mere prelude to an explosion of inflation. Given the Fed’s track record you’d have to be a little inclined to think they’ll get what they want (some inflation) and then some. Bernanke is desperate to get some inflation going now to pull up prices fearing a deflationary death spiral, but be careful what you wish for is the general consensus. Once it starts, ie inflation, the Fed will have to sell vast amounts of the so called ‘assets’ it has accumulated during these ‘rescues’, and it’s anyone’s guess as to whether they’ll be able to do it or even if the said ‘assets’ will have any value by then. If they can’t ‘mop up’ the vast amounts of liquidity they’ve created in desperation, it will come back to bite them (and us) on the bum big time.
As I’m looking at things, KR, we may not have to wait for the inflationary burst to arrive before we see the USD start to crumble. The first hint of trouble in the US Treasury markets will easily provoke the mother of all runs. I noticed this morning that the latest stimulus package has been priced at US 1.3 trill – an extraordinary price tag. No wonder the banks won’t lend any money to anyone any more.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24876450-7583,00.html
I would suggest that this is a very reasonable perspective from the Israeli ambassador:
“Israel has offered to deal with Hamas as long as it agrees to recognise Israel’s right to exist and renounce terrorism. Such demands are hardly taxing. In response, Hamas continued firing rockets at Israeli civilians.
Israel then entered a six-month unofficial ceasefire with Hamas. Despite it being broken regularly by Hamas, it largely held for five months. In November, Israel discovered a tunnel being dug by Hamas under the Gaza-Israel border. Hamas was planning to use this tunnel to capture and or kill Israeli soldiers. Thus Hamas was preparing for an offensive operation in the midst of a ceasefire period, and Israel was well within its rights to blow up the tunnel, which it did.
Hamas used this defensive, counter-terrorist measure as an excuse to fire 140 rockets at Israeli homes in the last four weeks of the six-month ceasefire period. Only after the December 19 conclusion of the ceasefire period passed, after Hamas ignored Israeli and international calls to extend it, and after more Hamas rockets – averaging 80 each day – hit Israeli homes and schools did Israel decide it had to take decisive action to protect its citizens.
Facing an enemy refusing to recognise its right to exist or even abide by a ceasefire, what alternatives did Israel have? The purpose of the Israeli military operation is to weaken, as much as possible, Hamas’s ability to hurt Israeli civilians. Any other Western country would do the same thing, because protection of one’s civilians is the central obligation of any government. ”
This is a crucial point:
“For as long as Hamas clings to the notion that Israel can be destroyed and it wants to be the one to do so, there will be no peace. ”
Obviously, this is only a snaphot over a brief period of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict – causes and effects reach back deep in time and space. However, this is the problem:
“Hamas’s founding charter includes the statement: “Hamas has been looking forward to implementing Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet (Mohammed), prayer and peace be upon him, said the time (of resurrection) will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews,” and, “peaceful solutions and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem are all contrary to the beliefs of Hamas.” “
Two weeks to go and no more Bush.
The Hill
more
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/lawmakers-criticize-sec-in-madoff-probe-2009-01-05.html
The Hill
more…
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/coleman-will-challenge-frankens-victory-2009-01-05.html
Politco
GOP resistant to Obama tax cut.
Now let me see. Obama looks very good in giving tax cuts, in voters eyes. I wonder why the Repugs are against them?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17057.html
Politico
RNC hopefuls predict Obama backlash.
Click here to find out where the Republicans are living
317 BlindO
US 30yr bonds took a hammering over the last few sessions as I’ve been expecting (but wasn’t short, bugger!), and here’s one local view of where it’s going:
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/SCOREBOARD-Rates-oversold-$pd20090106-MZS9Q?OpenDocument&src=sph
…the ‘sell off as confidence revives’ is a tad too simple, and doesn’t account for the elephant in the room: ie, what if confidence in the US’s credit worthiness goes seriously south?
Unthinkable? Yeah, so was a collapse in Lehmans and the debacle that followed.
Messages for Paddy Gaffy and Catrina in the playground.
I’m going to be ill.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/bush-to-present-highest-civilian-honour-to-howard-20090106-7an0.html
Didn’t Howard get the award for best arse licker?
When the court cases start, Howard can say, “but I got a medal”. That’ll help in court.
Only fourteen more days of crap left. Faster, faster, for god’s sake paddle faster. I can here the banjo’s playing.
I somehow doubt that there are going to be any court cases … At least, no court cases with a chance in hell of succeeding.
George sure can play a banjo.
Deliverence – The George Bush family movie.
Deliverance – Dueling Banjos Scene HQ
Jen, the irony of being given a medal called “Freedom” from the Retard with the lowest ratings of any President ever, just cannot fail to amuse people all around the world.
Johnny on the other hand, is stupid and vain enough to consider it an honour! LOL
Oh, Hi David. International court cases and US court cases. You may be right as far as the succeeding goes. But to not proceed, would be criminal. The Democrats have the Republicans on the ropes. The danger would be that they let them off. The Neocons are almost dead and burried. Not to proceed, would be Lazarus with a triple by pass. Or the Phoenix rising again.
At least I have got my links working properly. It was the quotation marks in the example in the playground, which I was coping and pasting. For some reason the quotation marks in the example are wrong.
Can someone change the quotation marks in #323?
Isn’t it refreshing to see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6r_3AgI49Y&eurl=http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/google-funds-hot-rock-technology-1294.html&feature=player_embedded
…instead of the the last 8 years of denial?
International court? Impossible – the US does not recognise the jurisdiction of the interntational court.
National court? Foolish – it will simply enable the republicans to claim persecution from the left while winning the battle in the end. Public relations wise, it would hand a huge victory to them. They would be able to paint their opponents as looney lefties and stir up the anti-anti-Americanism that helped Bush to win the 2004 election.
Obama would be insane to appoint a special prosecutor.
It is VERY obvious that the Republicans and Neocons have NOT learn’t a thing. If the get back again, everything will happen all over again. Ground Hog Day.
Definitely not David, you seem to have got things back to front again. Time will tell as usual. Oh, Australia does recognise the International court. So the can get Howard and Blair. Not to proceed would be very dangerous for the Democrats.
How on earth is the international court going to get Howard and Blair? On what charges? Assuming that charges of torture and illegal wiretapping can be made against Cheney and Bush, Howard did not torture anyone; Howard did not illegally wiretap. Neither did Blair. You are indulging in lunatic left-wing fantasies, I’m afraid.
Time has already told. There have been no proceedings lodged in the international court against Blair or Howard. There will be none against Bush or Cheney, either. And there will be none internally in the US against Bush or Cheney that have any credibility whatsoever. As such, Obama will in no way wish to be associated with any such things.
David Just for you
I love Monty Python. 🙂
So do I. Brought my kids up on it too.
Gotta do some more work.
“Israelis deny using phosphorus in Gaza.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/06/gaza-israel-palestine-munitions
A poisoned chalice for Obama.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/04/obama-gaza-israel
The Hill
Franken may be sworn in this week.
more… 😈
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/franken-may-be-sworn-in-this-week-2009-01-05.html
Maybe Coleman should get Kathryn Harris in on the recount. 😈
Katherine Harris
I can go beserk now that I can get my links to work. 😈
The Hill
Click here for the rest of this article
Alan Moir: Smart Bomb
Australian Personal Computer Magazine:
US Dumps Unpopular Internet Filter Plan
Politico
Biden to visit Southwest Asia.
Click here for the rest of the story
Arstechnica. The full interview.
Martin drops porn filtering from FCC free wireless broadband plan.
For the Full transcript click here
It would be nice if there was someone with some connections that could print it out and hand it personally to Kevin and Stephen.
Politico.
Aide: Obama will only ‘scratch the surface’ of hiring by January 20
For the full story click here
Hmmmmm who woulda thunk that?
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24880190-5001021,00.html
There is some talk of renewed optimism in the markets – equities are up, commodities are off their lows, high-yield currencies are up, the debts markets are a tiny bit less risk averse – but basically this is just wishful thinking in my opinion. The knock-on in the real economy is just starting to be felt.
I know in my industry that everyone is expecting final demand to take a terrible battering through 2009. Credit has become like lost youth – a thing of the past – and everyone is battening down for storms in the currency and debt markets. Steep discounting to move stocks and win orders has become almost universal. It is truly daunting.
The financial markets may think the worst is over, but basically this round is just getting started from a real-economy perspective.
The Center of Independent Studies.
Won’t Somebody Think of the Adults?
The article is continued here
CBS News
Franken Certified Winner Of Minn. Recount.
Click here for more of this exciting adventure with Al Franken
News from the Votemaster
Franken Declared the Winner in Minnesota
For the Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill click here
Votemaster will only be updating once a week from now on, until the 2010 polls start to kick in.
Never put your trust in Cod.
A neat, graphical depiction of Iceland’s financial woes.
http://www.theatlantic.com/images/issues/200812/map-iceland.gif?source=cmailer
It’s like going to war with Cod on your side.
After years of deregulation, Reaganism and Thatcherism, it’s all fianally caught up. So now we get Obamaism.
Paddy, was this real cod or fake cod?
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s
This MSNBC moment was not what I was expecting …
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/28511598#28511598
On this – I’m giving points to Pat Buchanan.
Jen
Do you think he has a chest big enough to pin it on. LOL
http://www.theage.com.au/cartoons/
I’ll second BlindO’s comments: this is a market head fake. Sure, it always looks good, but every dead cat bounce looks good while it’s still in the air.
A couple of months maybe, some Obama euphoria, but the fundamentals are appalling on every front.
Look out above, this cat will come to earth and then some.
Gaffers, the puny little weed would fall over. What a joke – the biggest idiot awarding his faithful idiot friend.
Check out this poll 😆
http://www.theage.com.au/polls/form.html
also – check out the number of respondents compared to other polls.
Looks like its the only way Georgie and Johnnie will have any friends. They can keep telling the world how great they are together, and no one will give a flying fuck.
Israel demands Hamas disarms.
This ought to help.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/israeli-strike-kills-40-in-un-school-20090107-7bcd.html
340
David Gould
Your loud outburst at 340 is a bit off the mark David. Some occasions it would pay you to check the facts before you open up with all guns blazing.
One of the persons involved is John Valder a former National and State President of the Liberal Party. Hardly a left wing loony!
Your encompassing statement categorises Cindy Sheehan, who lost her son in Eyeraq as a left wing loony. Shame on you.
One would sincerely hope that you would write to these individuals listed at this site and tell them they are Left wing Loonies.
I sincerely hope they succeed in their goals of getting Howard to the court at least.
That in itself would have an everlasting effect and he would be quietly shitting his pants with the knowledge there was a chance of him being sent down.
http://www.iccaction.com/
361
Paddy
Is it Codswallet or Codswallop?
Do they use Purse seen type netting?
Tues Jan 6:
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/tankmcnamara;_ylt=A0wNcxXU6GNJ51oBMwUDwLAF
Tues Jan 6:
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/nonsequitur;_ylt=AlpCxxW0VonQtXA13Nb1xnFj7CsC
Mon Jan 5:
http://news.yahoo.com/comics/mattbors;_ylt=At0yVNv8nOM07Ni6YXtjKvpj7CsC
Mon Jan 5:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/tedrall;_ylt=ApSc6XnytaDZjNr61eVkoxjd.sgF
Tues Jan 6:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/tomtoles;_ylt=AkCUi5YhF0j6HmlpCauPqlwXvTYC
Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.
Archimedes
http://www.cs.drexel.edu/~crorres/Archimedes/Lever/Lever.jpg
Peacekeepers-R-Us
http://www.truthdig.com/cartoon/item/20090106_middle_eastern_vultures/
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/64955
This writer calls the Gaza episode as Obama’s Bay of Pigs equating it with the garbage left to JFK by Eisenhower and Tricky Dicky when they organised the invasion of Cuba just prior to the Inauguration of JFK;
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21646.htm
368 jen Yes jen, I agree. The Australian selectors should be sacked. 😈
Lucky thirteen days to go before shit for brains leaves.
Are we there yet?
It’s worse than watching grass grow!
And one big Hooray for Israel.
truly excellent plan guys. but who would ever have thought this might happen 🙄
http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2009/01/07/Al-Qaeda_urges_Muslims_to_attack_West_293030.html
what is the matter with some men???????
http://www.theage.com.au/world/young-png-woman-bound-gagged-and-burnt-alive-20090107-7blz.html
and check out the photos of the Gaza school – if you can bear it.
not trying to nbe sexist here but the common thread to all this violence appears to be Boys.
I see our very own pathetic little ass licking war criminal ex PM is in esteemed company as recipient of G.W’s little “Medal of Freedom”.
He will be bending over (head bowed this time) in front of George with cohorts Tony Blair and P.M. Uribe of Colombia. What a triumvirate of worthy recipients.
If i recollect correctly, this is the same medal that George W bestowed on George Tenet lol.
What a fine little group they all are.
yes Harry – worthy recipients indeed.
And hopefully they all get to keep in touch afterwards – in the exercise compound.
News report from Gaza
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev6ojm62qwA
Washington Post: Blair House Mystery Solved: It’s John Howard
This is too embarrassing!
Back from the cricket. Whew! That was nerv wracking.
Here’s some Hi Res images of the Earth Race Boat. 100% Bio diesel
100% carbon neutral. Just what we need to win over the red necks. Its got to look mean or their not interested. They are very Hi Res so if you have a slow Internet connection they will be slow to open.
Hi Quality Images of the Earth Race Boat. Click Here.
To easily download a wallpaper/desktop picture changer click here.
Automatic Wallpaper Changer
It helps our cause. So put them on your computer to talk about.
384 It makes me very angry. But I keep telling myself, only thirteen days to go.
Chris, Matty Hayden’s replacement.
http://media.smh.com.au/?rid=44416&source=smh.com.au/top5
383
Catrina, the antiseptic ‘news’ that we (and the ‘civilised’ world) gets is filtered so much that only the euphemisms get through. A ‘surgical strike’ does not show the open abdominal wounds of children, and so we’re removed further from the reality of this abomination.
Hamas is provocative, and occasionally lethal, whereas the Israeli attack is a war crime perpetrated on an entire population.
It’s truly appalling.
384
Catrina Says:
This is too embarrassing!
Hell Catrina, after 8 years, that’s not embarrassing.
😆
*THIS* is embarrassing…If your name’s K.Windshuttle. 👿
http://www.theage.com.au/national/conservative-bible-falls-for-furphy-20090106-7b6m.html
Plus in other good news….
He’s back!
Jon Stewart strikes again.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=213378
387 Enemy Combatant Thanks EC, but I’ve already downloaded that video. It’s sitting on my desktop. We do need to replace Hayden though.
Bush Will Not Run for Senate
Maybe he can see the writing on the wall.
More from Political Wire
Former Florida governor Jeb Bush has chosen not to run for the Senate seat being vacated by Sen. Mel Martinez (R) in Florida. It was widely believed that if he had run, he would have been the favourite to win the election. A second bonus for the Democrats is that their attempts to convince Florida’s Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink, likely their best candidate for the race, to run will be boosted by the fact that his biggest opponent is now out of the running.
Washingtonpost.com:
FL-Senate: Jeb Bush Will Not Run
Oh snap!
Obama has named his new head of C.I.A. A bloke called Leon Panetta – former chief of staff to Slick Willy.
I don’t know much about him but apparently Russ Feingold likes him and Dianne Feinstein hates him. If that is the reaction from the 2 Fein’s then i am happy.
With Jeb Bush not running in Florida, Nate Silver at FiveThirtyEight.com now ranks this race the most likely to result in a change of party.
394
Harry H
There is a story on Huffo Post about that scenario. The story goes that apparently his name was leaked before they could talk to everyone about it. She was pissed off because she was not consulted before his name was made public. Must be a bit of internal stuff as the story says it is all smooth now.
Link to Huffo in right column.
Catrina and Kirri-
this atrocity perpetrated by Israel is so dreadful that they will lose any sympathy they may have held in the hearts and minds of non-Jews who supported their right to safety after the horror of the Holocaust. they are behaving like the worst of oppressers targetting (and you cannot believe they are not) children and civilians.
395 GhostWhoVotes The better job Obama does the bluer this state will turn. The polls in Florida will certainly be worth watching if Obama and the Democrats are perceived to be doing a good job.
oops – wrote that wrong. 🙁
Of course they have the right to safety, but not to kill innocents with impunity.
Politico
What to do about Burris?
More of this intriguing stuff from Politico